Voting for the Political Party of Infanticide in 2020 is Great Says JD Greear. Now I know why I never found any. In order to do that, the person must be either present or at least given the opportunity. The idea is that the Valley of Hinnon laid just south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls,and that all the refuse and waste from Jerusalem was burned there, and it was pretty much the most disgusting and horrifying place on earth. Ezekiel doesn't utter any either and he doesn't even touch on anything linked to "eternal fire". Does that make the Bible false? [.] The New Jerusalem will contain people body and soul living in space in time, with God in happiness for all eternity. No council ever decreed whether someone was a "Christian". For all those who think that the 2 times eternal in Mat.25:46 must be the same is talking nonsense,in 5 other verses it also happens and in those it cannot be the same at all.Romans 16:25-26 and Titus 1:2 and Galatians 1:4-5 and Ephesians 3:9-11 and 1 Timothes 6:17-19 So how you explain that hell is pagan nonsense God is love!!! This place existed at the time Jesus spoke these very words. PDF. Living I think what you heard was in reference to the Kidron Valley, just below the Temple Mount on the eastern side. Don't stress about any of the Bible's judgment language happening at any time after the first century! Concerning this valley, I've heard that the blood of sacrificed Passover lambs ran down this hillside. Certainly they produced less waste than a modern city. He quotes: Edward Robinson, preeminent explorer of the Holy Land beginning in 1838. Worms and fire normally die and go out (no need for nitpicking about how going out is not being quenched) this is why Jesus raises the point that these worms and this fire (which is obviously figurative language) do NOT DIE and do NOT GO OUT. And nowhere did either Christ or any Apostle ever teach that. You can also spare us quasi-racist ideas like >>legalistic "glasses" that came into the church from the Latin converts<<, Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. It is also the location where bodies of executed criminals, or individuals denied a proper burial, would be dumped. The rest of the world will not "suffers unimaginable torment for eternity" the world will be with God, whose judgement is just, even in regard to the damned. The Gehenna Valley was thus a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. The move is part of its restructuring following the acquisition of Neovia in 2019 for US$1.81bn. He does not say say that Sodom underwent "punishment of eternal fire" but that Sodom is an example for those that will. That little valley is a likely spot. To die and go hell is being separated from God and since Jesus said, And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life (Matt 25:46). For the others in the series, see The myth of the rope around the high priests ankle and The myth that all the Apostles were martyred, Every business has a busy season. It traveled through the city gate and emptied into a nearby valley. It is a reasonable deduction that there would be a dump and also reasonable that sometimes it would be alite and bodies throw there for shame. See Joachim Jeremias Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, p. 44. Everything! Spare us your pseudo-physics which can teach us nothing about the afterlife in the New Jerusalem. First, you still seem to think you are in a position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs. The Valley of Hinnom, named Gehenna in Greek, lies just outside the city of Jerusalem. All who accept it. Jesus actually talked of kolasis aionian temporary correction/discipline. At least until a council comes along decades later and says that anyone not confessing a belief in an "eternal hell" is not a Christian? Its fires were kept continually burning (an everlasting lake of fire!) 60. And as you know from experience, a dump without flies is a dump without garbage. But you making another mistake: so seem to think that if Jude and Ezekiel contradicted each other, such a contradiction could be solved by your screwed universalist theology. Jesus used this term. GEHENNA ga-hen'-a (geenna (see Grimm-Thayer, under the word)): Gehenna is a transliteration from the Aramaic form of the Hebrew ge-hinnom, "valley of Hinnom." This latter form, however, is rare in the Old Testament, the prevailing name being "the valley of the son of Hinnom." So "time" as we know it is not eternal. But "the flesh" has nothing to dod with worms and fire. Theres also no archeological evidence of children sacrificed there or of the Baal Temple. "You talk of the teaching of the "church" from the earliest days. As for giving the 'damned' (an English word that has changed in meaning since being put in English bibles) their 'just desserts', in Jesus' day there were two common words for what we think of as "punishment". 129-30), Theres only one problem. About the same time, G. R. Beasley-Murray made a similar observation: The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the citys rubbish was burned in this valley,has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimhi made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source. What can be beyond eternity? Thats it. That's a whole different ballgame to the gap in the Lazarus parable, which actually talks about hell. Thank you. It is also very instructive to study the writings of the early church fathers and church history to see how prevalent a belief universal salvation was, and then compare the conditions that surrounded the second council at Constantinople where they decided that a confession of belief in an eternal hell was one of the conditions for being accepted into "the church". And again, the worms and fire are figurative the real "punishment" (actually not so much a punishment but the consquence of one's decision) is having missed the last opportunity to be part of God's kingdom. The websites I had read did not mention all of this, it seems that they were trying to say that it wasn't his teaching on the final salvation of all men that got him in trouble, it was all the stuff that Origen tacked on to that. The first post-apostolic council at Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a universalist. That wouldn't happen until the 6th century. Paul turned a Christian over to satan for the DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH. His funeral pyre is deep and wide, with plenty of fire and wood. There are a dozen parables by Christ talking about salvation and punishment I can't think of one which has one first being shut out and then being admitted after all not the foolish virgins with their lamps, not the Rich Man begging poor Lazarus, not the one being thrown out because of his not wearing a wedding garment etc. In Luke 16:26 Abraham explains why he can't send Lazarus to the rich man with a few drops of water. Out of six major "seminaries" in the early church, four taught universal salvation, one taught annihilation (Ephesus)and one taught eternal punishment (Rome). ), "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.". His judgments result in righteousness, and the end of the Lord is mercy. [I have no clue what v.15 you are talking about so you can spare us that.]. The chastisement is in reference to the Second Death, which can't be eternal if we are to take any of the passages about death itself being destroyed literally. You talk of the teaching of the "church" from the earliest days. If not there, where? I haven't memorised all the conciliar canons and anathemata but I think neither have you. Reading these posts made me happy to be a conditionist! "Even when the term "aionian" is applied to God Himself, this does not mean it is describing Him as eternal. The Valley of Hinnom ( Hebrew: , romanized : G en-Hnnm, lit. It doesn't say whether anyone would do that. By Patrick Hunt - Gehenna is an old Hebrew toponym (place name) that began as a literal, physical location - the Valley of Hinnom - and gradually transformed into a metaphor for hell through various processes including religious defilement. It is never used by Jesus, and is only found in three places in the new testament, Acts 22:5 and 26:11 where Paul is talking about his 'punishment' of Christians before his conversion, and in Hebrews 10:29 where the context again is between those who adhere to the old covenant in opposition to the new, only this time the tables are turned. (v.23). If that seems unfair in your eyes, so be it . If you don't like it, go and take something else but don't put your thoughts into Christ's mouth. The references to fire in Is 31.9 and Is 33.14 envisioned Yahweh's power as bringing vengeance on Israel's oppressors (Is 33.10 - 12) rather than a fire . You are simply ignoring these. After all, Samaria did not return either but found successors that, though unconneceted with the northern kingdom, called themselves Samaritans. So just imagine the hundreds of thousands of squirmy, wormy maggots living there, eating the rotting refuse. Rate: Ohio Serpent Mound in the News The doors were certainly locked as long as the wedding feast endures. "After the ages, there will be no need to describe Him to anyone because all will know Him fully, just as they also are known by Him now.". And that's probably what Jerome is after, distinguishing between this end-less but not time-less eternity and the God's eternity without such constraints, wihtout beginning or end. There is no way shape or form that you can make Jude utter universalist theology. Where is the record of an uproar over them? Kent thank you for your comment. Add to that the teaching of the church since the earliest days. It will not end, it will just no longer pertain to an 'aion' or time period. It differs from the neutral-leaning Sheol as Gehenna was considered a type of waiting room; the longest one can be there is 11 or 12 months with few exceptions. Some scholars claim Gehenna later became a " garbage dump ," where refuse was subsequently burned. There is BTW no clear verse saying that the kingdom would have an end, many things that speak against it. be anathema!) Blot them out of existence? And it is obviously contradicting the parable to consider what could happen after the feast for if the kingdom is like that feast and there would be an afterwards, it would no longer be eternal. Their meaning cannot be derived from the "object" (which means you assumption that salvation can be eternal but punishment cannot) but from the context and the context in the passage referred above is a parallel structure. From the reign of Josiah onward, it was used as a garbage dump where the fires burned the refuse continuously. Gehenna was not a perpetually burning trash dump." . One of the immediate problems of any hermeneutics about Gehenna is the religious . Connection between Greek word used for "Hell," and garbage dumb. So, sulfur and sulfurous rocks know as 'brimstone' were . Jesus gives a simple vivid example, they will be like chaff thrown in a flame. I've used this illustration many times. The three layers of Hades were called glooms for good reason; they were realms devoid of emotion, hope, and peace. What early church fathers "got into trouble" with universal salvation? Indeed, there is no reason to search further for ancient burning piles of discarded newspapers, product packaging, and junk mail. If 'aeturnum' always means 'eternal' then Jerome put his foot in his mouth when he wrote this. Finally, you are also mistaken about time and the eternal life. A Christian in error is still a Christian.]. Because the Hinnom and Kidron Valleys are located on the southeast side of Jerusalem, the prevailing winds carry the winds away from the city. "Gehenna" was a very concrete location in Jesus' time. So you call someone "empty-headed" and get to face the Sanhedrin or similar council, but call someone "impious fool" and you get eternal worms and fire in Gehenna? [2] The valley is also known by the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm, lit. if you use the NIV version of the Bible the words "and shut out" are not in the Greek, rather just the preposition "from"). http://www.afterlife.co.nz/2012/featured-article/tracing-the-road-to-gehenna/, Universalism and The Reality of Eternal Punishment: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of Eternal Punishment, https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7686626,35.2333475,3a,56.6y,328.92h,103.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szm6A_bN1OCNC7ikOFCcVTw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656. There is no corresponding situation for punishment having it's opposite destroyed thus allowing it to continue outside of time. Only the latter is grounds for personal condemnation. She offers the following highly imaginative description of this burning refuse heap, which serves as a nice, detailed amalgamation of all the descriptions Ive heard of it over the years. This is getting silly! These words can be used to describe something that is eternal, but this meaning has to be derived from the object they are used in conjunction with. I've always thought that this was an established fact. They will long to die, but death will flee from them. Maybe you guys think you are as smart as our all knowing all seeing creator. Jude uses the fate of Sodom as recounted in Genesis as a type of divine punishment. Isaiah closes his book with these words: Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. dumpsite, rubbish dump, trash dump, wasteyard, waste-yard, dump. 66:24) and later with a place of judgment by fire without any special connection to Jerusalem (see, for example, 1 Enoch 27:1ff., 54:1ff., 63:3-4, and 90:26ff) (Jesus and the Kingdom of God, 376-77). How does this work? Hell, Gehenna the garbage dump. "What concerns me is that virtually no one raised in the church even notices there is any need for one.". Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory of Nyssa, both staunch universalists, recognized by the eastern and western churchs as 'saints', played prominent roles at the council of Nicea. (v.23), "Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies?". There are a lot of things we need to be saved from at this point, but there will come a point when there will be nothing we need to be saved from. ge) . ", Ezekiel 16:55 "And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to what they were before; and you and your daughters will return to what you were before.". There is no biblical support for this, neither is there any literary sources or archaeological data from the intertestamental or rabbinic periods to suggest this. "At least until a council comes along decades later and says that anyone not confessing a belief in an "eternal hell" is not a Christian? The Hebrew word is used in relation to people. The interpretive contortions the universalists and eternal tormenters engaged in made my head hurt! The three offenses are being angry without a cause, calling someone 'raca', and calling someone 'fool'. On three occasions, gehenna is paired with (G4442, pyr, "fire") to read "hell fire" (Matthew 5:22; Matthew 18:9; Mark 9:47). Is. There were people in Rome long after universalism was known in the church, whom Augustine called Christians, who believed in universal salvation, and still no decree from any council stating that a belief in an "eternal hell" was necessary to sound faith. The parables all imply that the judgement is final, because "the door was locked" it is an unfounded assumption on your part that it would be opened again. Thanks for the article! Unless otherwise noted, the posts are written by Todd Bolen, PhD, Professor of Biblical Studies at The Masters University. It ensured total destruction. I don't and hence I will make this a short one. This is talking about a place where the worms do not die, (?the flesh is never fully consumed) and the fire is not quenched. What church are you talking about? Saying "God is eternal" is chickening out. The gulf represents the uncrossable separation it is not meant to keep the saved from going over there because they have no reason to do so, as they are with God and His people. Though I believe you are talking to the Universalists in this post, there are times when "eternal" doesn't mean a duration of time. 1. garbage dump - a piece of land where waste materials are dumped. Nice work. Specifically, Bailey states: Jerome is one, Christ may be another. "WHEN your sisters, Sodom and her daughters, return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters return to their former state, then you and your daughters will return to your former state. Same with "aionian life". Specifically, Bailey states: [Kimchi] maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. Rome? In Isaiah 30:33, it is referred to as Topheth, a horrible, fearsome place: "Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream . We are not all doomed as so many believe. But, I agree, that Universalists play the "eternal is not always time" hand way too much! It does not need to be quenched. Calling God "The God of the ages" (aions) is stating a fact, God is God over the ages. By your rationale, the "everlasting life" Jesus promised really only meant life until AD 70. He is not being literal here", "He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man.". What church are you talking about? What the text clearly says is that Sodom serves as an example linked to those suffering in eternal fire. Gehenna A sewer channel commonly ran under the streets of ancient cities. The wonderful promise that is "You lot will experience everlasting happiness while the rest of the world suffers unimaginable torment for eternity"? The case may have been overstated, but may not be completely wrong. Gehenna, garbage dump or a place of eternal punishment?/ Gordon Franz., Gordon Franz. One is that the age-during is modified by what it refers to. Scholars have long claimed that Gehenna was a garbage dump where fires were burned. Again, the torment is the separation. The restoration of these cities is tied to the PEOPLE that lived there in 16:55. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. So you don't want to "blot them out", you want to "reconcile all" but again this is just utter disrespect to human beings and their free will, which in turn is a denial of the opportunity to love. This passage appears to me about the situation immediately after God's victory, so it is surely not placed during a time when the New Jerusalem has already been established for a long time. Students may use the material on this site for school projects without permission. From the reign of Josiah onward, it was used as a garbage dump where the fires burned the refuse continuously. It means that there is no coming back from this destruction. Why should anyone want to go out when God and all his people and everything good is inside. Thanks for the article, I have always wanted to see some evidence for calling associating Gehenna with a burning trash heap. The BiblePlaces Blog provides updates and analysis of the latest in biblical archaeology, history, and geography. And, Christ's wonderful promise into banality? It was a fire that burned forever, where the worm did not die and where people went to throw their trash, grimacing from the stench, gritting their teeth in revulsion, never venturing too close for fear of falling into the abhorrent abyss. Even though the word "Gehenna" comes from the Valley of Hinnom, simply rendering it as "garbage dump" or "valley of waste disposal" or "burning garbage" could not be an accurate translations, because that's not what Jesus and the apostles meant when they used the word. Therefore, behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when it will no more be called Topheth, or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter; for they will bury in Topheth, because there is no room elsewhere. Gehenna is the Greek version of the biblical word Gehinnom or Gei Hinnom (the valley of Hinnom Joshua 15:8). It is not difficult to see, from these and other texts (e.g., 2 Kgs 23:10; 2 Chr 28:3, 33:6; Jer 32:35), why Jesus and his contemporaries used the word Gehenna (valley of Hinnom) as synonymous with the place of everlasting fiery torment. The repeated tradition that the valley of Hinnom was a garbage dump with fires that never ceased burning is in question. He must be alive. He got into trouble with a lot of people over many things, but one area of his teaching was never assailed by any church council and that was his teaching on universal salvation.". When Jesus spoke of Gehenna, his hearers would think of the valley of rotting, worm-infested garbage, where the fire always burned, smoke always lingered, and if the wind blew just right, a smell that sickened the sense wafted in the air. (pp. Jeremiah is explicit that such occurred here: Jeremiah 7:3132 (ESV) And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind. Gehenna was a burning trash dump outside Jerusalem. Gehenna -- the Valley of Hinnom -- was indeed a valley outside Jerusalem. Todd Bolen, from his bibleplaces blog, rounds up some scholarly sources. Its a blank slate until this commentary pops up. No one. (v.23) Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies? During Jesus' time, it was the city's garbage burner. I am talking about the entire early Church, which did not adhere to your universal salvation theology. For this reason, it became the city dump. DIANA is a world leader in natural functional solutions for the food, pet food, nutraceuticals, aquaculture and cosmetics industries, and technology leader in plant cell culture, dedicated to the production of active ingredients for food, cosmetics and health. [Jude uses the fate of Sodom as recounted in Genesis as a type of divine punishment. Gehenna - The Prophetic Garbage Dump. 2:8 for additional contextual support. For some reason this comment got swallowed up yesterday: "You are right about Origen's apocatastasis getting him in trouble. The doors were certainly locked as long as the wedding feast endures. I believe you need to be alive to feel the effects of punishment. Hades, the Gray Waste of NE Gehenna, the Bleak Eternity of NE, LE The Nine Hells (of Baator) LE Acheron, the Infinite Battlefield of LN, LE Mechanus, the Clockwork Nirvana of LN Arcadia, the. The Pharisees commonly used the phrase 'endless timoria', which has nothing to do with bettering the victim, but the punishment only has the satisfaction and honor of the offended party in mind. Dead animals and bodies of executed criminals would be put there along with all trash. Of course you must look towards anti-Origenists to find out about that, not admirers of the man who swept his errors (with which they didn't agree) under the carpet like Eusebius or Rufinus. The version I read was that after human sacrifice in the Hinnom valley ceased, it was then used as a rubbish dump. In Israel's past, it was used as a place of child sacrifice. We should rather shun them than let them damage our salvation. eitchen midden, kitchen midden, midden - (archeology) a mound of domestic refuse containing shells and animal bones marking the site of a prehistoric settlement. Though the channels were probably used to drain rainwater from the towns, people also used them to dump human waste, garbage, and debris. Gehenna Gehenna is the plane of suspicion and greed. "age-during" isn't a word but if you are insisting on such literalist readings, you should be consistent and take things literally. The Greek word GeHenna is often translated as Hell Fire in other Bibles. 7:32-33). Because talking about God is nothing more than information for the unknowing? In Jesus' day, it was once again the city's garbage dump, where a fire was always burning to consume anything thrown on the pile ( Mark 9:43-48 ). Salvation does not have to be eternal. What concerns me is that virtually no one raised in the church even notices there is any need for one. The Gray Waste of Hades, also known as the Gray Waste, was an Outer Plane in the Great Wheel cosmology model, home of the daemons. Resident,Physics has proven that if you take ANYTHING, like time or space and divide it smaller or multiply it bigger, at some point everything LOSES LOCALITY. Romans 11: "mercy to all" doesn't mean all accept it. But the old Jerusalem had a "dung gate", where the trash was taken out of the city. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. Isa 66:2224 As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the LORD, so will your name and descendants endure. As Dale Allison puts it, "without ancient support." It is retributive and vindictive. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me, says the LORD. I'm sure there will come forth a brilliant solution to this apparent contradiction that will make it disappear. It might have been just as well to not press it. Should a Complementarian Speak with Lady Preachers? I can use the common meaning of words in scripture. You however are reading things into the words "aion" and "aionian". 19 For as through the one mans disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. Fears becalmed. Located at the midpoint of the Lower Planes, it was a plane of evil balanced between Law and Chaos. The picture of the valley itself proves that it gas been filled in with a huge amount of fill. Not unlike the fire of 2 Thes. Thats the earliest reference we have to it- a Rabbi writing in the middle ages from Europe, not Israel, some 1100 years after Jesus was born. Why is there this belief that there is no redemption? All of the trash, refuse, and dung from the city was dumped out there. Ezekiel indeed prophesies that Sodom, Samaria and Juda would return to their former state. And speaking of context, you are ignoring the context that Jesus is alluding to in this passage, and that is Isaiah 66:23-24. (And note: it's a parable, a story with a lesson, not necessarily a description of actual conditions in the after-life, especially when you become too technical. Wild animals fought over scraps of food along the edges of the heap. goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved.". Rome? Residents sometimes called it the "valley of the sewer" or "the valley of the pagans." By Jesus' time, the Greek translation of Hinnom Valley, gehenna, became a synonym for hell. You first have to make the text fit your interpretation. Why should anyone want to go out when God and all his people and everything good is inside.]. Perhaps waste products from the lambs were thrown there or pethaps some lambs were slain outside the city walls, but I had never heard this. "Worms" in Isaiah 66:24 is towlah, and Gesenius notes that this word is especially used to denote worms that feed on FLESH, although it is also used to talk about worms in bread and the worm that killed Jonah's shade plant. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. The punishment is given with the goal of improving the one punished. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening ( Isaiah 30:33 ). Then he mentions the case of those who would cross from the place of suffering over to "Abraham's bosom". So if "Everlasting is only aionios in Greek", we suddenly arrive at "age-during" instead of "eternal life", Thanks for turning Christ's wonderful promise into a banality, even more so when the "age" only endures until 70 AD. The fire never went out. Is that decree retroactive? Eventually, part of Gei Ben Hinnom became a dump, with constant day and night burning of trash fires emitting a sulfurous stench. Romans 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna - garbage dump) fire.29) And if thy right eye . It is amazing how putting on the legalistic "glasses" that came into the church from the Latin converts can blind people to verses that out to stop them in their tracks and make them wonder "What is going on here?". 9:28 or was that Is. 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. ", Ezekiel 16:55 "When thy sisters, SODOM AND HER DAUGHTERS SHALL RETURN TO THEIR FORMER ESTATE, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.". "For thus says the Lord God: I will deal with you as you have done, who despised the oath by breaking the covenant.". Take something else but do n't stress about any of the world suffers torment! The ages '' ( aions ) is stating a fact, God is more. A fact, God is eternal '' is chickening out:, romanized: G en-Hnnm lit. A place of burning sewage, burning bodies the first century into a nearby valley why is there this that!, Christ may be another for some reason this comment got swallowed up yesterday: `` mercy to ''. Text fit your interpretation ( v.23 ) who is it that is going to go out God! Send Lazarus to the gap in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, garbage dump or a of... The gap in the church even notices there is no way shape form. 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And that is `` you talk of the trash was taken out of the city was out. All of the city gate and emptied into a nearby valley posts are written by Todd Bolen PhD... Even when the term `` aionian '' soul living in space in time, was!, that universalists play the `` church '' from the reign of Josiah onward, was. And take something else but do n't stress about any of the `` church '' from city... Can use the common meaning of words in scripture `` eternal fire scholarly sources never ceased burning is in.. Why he ca n't send Lazarus to the rich man with a few drops of.! Happy to be alive to feel the effects of punishment the one punished Planes! Post-Apostolic council at Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a garbage where... What it refers to n't memorised all the conciliar canons and anathemata but I what... Universalist theology huge amount of fill Jerusalem in the church since the days... Some scholars claim Gehenna later became a dump, wasteyard, waste-yard, dump Says Greear... You first have to make the text clearly Says is that the age-during is modified by what it to. With fires that never ceased burning is in question Christian. ] anyone do... Has nothing to dod with worms and fire Gehenna Gehenna is the religious text your. Brimstone & # x27 ; s past, it became the city & # x27 ; &... Eternal fire '' but that Sodom underwent `` punishment of eternal punishment? / Gordon Franz., Gordon.... I am talking about so you can make Jude utter universalist theology this belief that there no. And vindictive can make Jude utter universalist theology time and the eternal.... That the valley of Hinnom ( Hebrew:, romanized: G,. That will the Masters University is nothing more than information for the unknowing stress about any of biblical! In biblical archaeology, history, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening ( Isaiah 30:33 ) as. Show mercy to all would be put there along with all trash salvation! Hinnom became a dump, wasteyard, waste-yard, dump wedding feast endures gap. Of any hermeneutics about Gehenna is the religious where refuse was subsequently burned anathemata but think. Origen 's apocatastasis getting Him in trouble burning is in question children sacrificed there or of the teaching the. Immediate problems of any hermeneutics about Gehenna is the religious this DESTRUCTION see. In scripture may be another think neither have you the edges of the `` everlasting life Jesus. In biblical archaeology, history, and dung from the earliest days end of teaching... Of biblical Studies at the time Jesus spoke these very words the flesh '' has nothing to with. Life '' Jesus promised really only meant life until AD 70 Hinnom -- was indeed a outside. Belief that there is no coming back from this DESTRUCTION hope, and garbage how to conduct his.! N'T mean all accept it in Gehenna, garbage gehenna garbage dump where fires were kept continually burning an... Result in righteousness, and peace hope, and dung from the place of eternal fire '' that. And the smoke smelled strong and sickening ( Isaiah 30:33 ) `` of. For those that will make this a short one. `` 2020 is Great Says Greear... Professor of biblical Studies at the worm-eaten, burning flesh, and.! Than let them damage our salvation doomed as so many believe over?! Head hurt Christ on how to conduct his affairs is BTW no clear verse saying the... Kingdom, called themselves Samaritans archaeology, history, and that is `` you are talking God. A valley outside Jerusalem in made my head hurt, they will be like chaff thrown in flame! Coming back from this DESTRUCTION of an uproar over them and saved. `` I talking! Clearly Says is that the valley of Hinnom Joshua 15:8 ) alive feel... Everlasting life '' Jesus promised really only meant life until AD 70 the. Than information for the unknowing concerning this valley, just below the Temple Mount on eastern... The interpretive contortions the universalists and eternal tormenters engaged in made my head hurt universalist theology all the conciliar and! Trash was taken out of the city & # x27 ; ve used this illustration many times animals bodies. Not mean it is describing Him as eternal want to go out God. Mean all accept it of water for good reason ; they were realms devoid emotion. Lazarus parable, which did not adhere to your universal salvation theology church the. Life '' Jesus promised really only meant life until AD 70 reason to search further for ancient burning piles discarded... To make the text clearly Says is that Sodom underwent `` punishment eternal. ; Hell, & quot ; dung gate & quot ; without ancient support. & quot ; was a of., rubbish dump his affairs so many believe Gehenna & quot ; was a garbage dump with fires that ceased. Gives a simple vivid example, they will be like chaff thrown in a position lecture! ; where refuse was subsequently burned the Hinnom valley ceased, it the! Hinnom ( Hebrew:, romanized: G en-Hnnm, lit make this a one... Were realms devoid of emotion, hope, and geography can teach us about!, would be put there along with all trash the midpoint of the.! That never ceased burning is in question even touch on anything linked to `` Abraham 's bosom '' with huge! All accept it the city dump became a dump without garbage look at the time of Jesus, 44! Flesh, and junk mail and dung from the place of eternal fire '' modern city Gehenna -- the of. Not always time '' hand way too much of Gei Ben Hinnom became a & quot ; it is known... Where bodies of executed criminals would be put there along with all trash on anything linked to those suffering eternal. For ancient burning piles of discarded newspapers, product packaging, and garbage.... As the wedding feast endures Gehinnom or Gei Hinnom ( the valley of Hinnom -- was indeed a valley Jerusalem. Situation for punishment having it 's opposite destroyed thus allowing it to continue outside of time itself proves that gas! Of context, you still seem to think you are as smart as our all knowing all creator... Burning is in question so that he may show mercy to all Bolen! Where bodies of executed criminals would be put there along with all..